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Thread: DTD | Arts District: 2121 Flora

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    Administrator dfwcre8tive's Avatar
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    D-AD DTD | Arts District: 2121 Flora

    Anyone know what the plans are for 2121 Flora? It's currently a nice parking lot.

    http://www.planbdevelopment.com/pages/flora.htm

    That site is currently being used as a commercial parking lot. Preliminary development plans for the property include a mixed use high rise containing luxury condominiums, a boutique hotel and ground floor retail space.

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    Skyscraper junkie gchrisbailey's Avatar
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    ^There have been mixed rumors around this and other forums...my personal favorite is the one that details a 1000' foot tower in that spot...sorry, I can't recall the post where I saw it.
    "...Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..."

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    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    Last fall, skys_the_limi posted this to the Museum Tower thread

    http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/sh...postcount=1080

    Quote Originally Posted by skys the limi
    10-06-2010 post #1080

    Parking lot in front of Museum Tower would be great for a Modern Art Museum!

    I'm not sure if anyone has posted this or not but the parking lot immediately in front of Museum Tower is being held for a planned highrise development called "2121 Flora", which is its street address.

    Preliminary development plans for the property include a mixed use high rise containing luxury condominiums, a boutique hotel and ground floor retail space per the architectural firm's website describing development plans for the lot:

    http://planbdevelopment.com/pages/flora.htm

    A quote from an article in October of 2009 by the president of the entity that owns the land:

    "Itís not lack of financing, but lack of demand for condos and hotel rooms thatís stalling a project planned along Flora, between Olive and Pearl", said Graham Greene, president of Metroarts Corp., the entity that owns the land. Another entity would probably do the development, although that has not yet been determined, according to Greene.

    Greene plans a mixed-use development with a boutique hotel, condo and retail space, although the cost and scope of the project will be determined later. He envisions 80 to 150 condo units, 80 to 125 hotel rooms and about 60,000 square feet of space for restaurants, galleries, florists and similar retailers. The project is tentatively being called 2121 Flora, which is the propertyís address.

    This is the link to the article containing the above quotes from Graham Greene, which also discusses various Arts District projects (of which several are now under development but weren't a year ago!):

    http://dallas.bizjournals.com/dalla.../05/story7.html

    Another view of the lot that clearly shows its position immediately across from Museum Tower:

    http://www.thedallasartsdistrict.or...s-district-map/

    If the economy can continue to strengthen and more business and corporate headquarter relocations into Downtown Dallas pick up speed, projects like 2121 Flora may still come to fruition.

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    been a while since we've heard from this project...looks like it's dead?

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    Skyscraper junkie gchrisbailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xen0blue View Post
    been a while since we've heard from this project...looks like it's dead?
    I would say it's too soon to say it's dead...would probably make sense for anything being built there to wait until Museum Tower is finished...
    "...Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..."

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    the new chevron building. Or a downtown walmart.

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhops View Post
    the new chevron building. Or a downtown walmart.
    neither.

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    Mid-Rise Member skys the limit's Avatar
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    Graham Greene, who owns the land for 2121 Flora, back in his late 2009 interview indicated that it was not a lack of financing or funding that was keeping it from moving forward but a lack of demand:

    "Itís not lack of financing, but lack of demand for condos and hotel rooms thatís stalling a project planned along Flora, between Olive and Pearl", said Graham Greene, president of Metroarts Corp., the entity that owns the land.


    Just like what The Spire people are doing in the interim, he's making enough income off the parking lot that is currently on the land to cover his expenses and patiently waiting until the right moment arrives to build.

    I think we'll know it may be dead if a "For Sale" sign were to ever appear on the lot .... but I don't think it is dead at all but waiting for the market timing to be right.

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    Graham Greene has filed an application for 9% tax credits for the property at 2121 Flora. The application, which scored high enough to look like it has some chance of being granted, is for 49 units of affordable housing and $500,000 in tax credits (since that's per year for ten years, it is really for about $5,000,000 worth of tax credits).

    I am totalling speculating, but given the number of units, it seems possible that it's part of a larger project. It is also possible that it would be directed to emerging artists--but I don't know that either. I'm just guessing.

    This could be a really great thing for the arts district and downtown.

    That's the only application I see near downtown. The highest scoring Dallas application, and the only one scoring higher than 2121 Flora, is for a development at the corner of LBJ and Merit.

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    Super Moderator lakewoodhobo's Avatar
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    ^That would be incredible and the perfect companion to the Museum Tower fortress of elitism.

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    Mid-Rise Member kenc's Avatar
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    49 units is not many.....so we are looking at a mid-rise building ? Six or seven floors ?

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    Super Moderator Tnekster's Avatar
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    Who is Grahm Greene?

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    High-Rise Member muncien's Avatar
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    How shiny can we make it?

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    Graham Greene is an architect. He offices on San Jacinto street--I think on the corne of Ervay--downtown.

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    Super Moderator Tnekster's Avatar
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    ^Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriousSummer View Post
    Graham Greene is an architect. He offices on San Jacinto street--I think on the corne of Ervay--downtown.
    Be that as it may, he'll always be an Anglo-Catholic author and literary critic to me.

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    Administrator dfwcre8tive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriousSummer View Post
    Graham Greene is an architect. He offices on San Jacinto street--I think on the corne of Ervay--downtown.
    Oglesby Greene is at San Jacinto/St Paul. They've done several projects downtown including 1900 Elm and lofts in Deep Ellum.

    http://www.oglesbygreene.com/

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    Skyscraper Member maconahey's Avatar
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    Affordable artist housing potentially coming to Dallas Arts District

    By JEFF MOSIER
    Staff Writer
    jmosier@dallasnews.com
    Published: 19 February 2013 11:13 PM

    http://www.dallasnews.com/news/commu...s-district.ece

    His nonprofit arts group, La Reunion TX, hopes to address that, if it can secure $1.1 million in low-income housing grants to subsidize residences for artists at a new development in the Arts District. The City Councilís Housing Committee on Tuesday endorsed a tax-credit application for the project, Flora Lofts, although the application faces fierce competition from others seeking the housing assistance.

    If built, the six-story residential development would go up on Flora Street, near two feuding neighbors: the Nasher Sculpture Center and Museum Tower, a luxury high-rise where most condominiums cost at least $1 million.
    Meckfessel said the 39 affordable housing units would rent for $360 to $790 each. Eight penthouse units, priced at market rates, would go for about $1.75 per square foot ó or $1,750 for a 1,000-square-foot apartment.

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    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    WOW! That's fantastic!
    The mediator between the head and the hands must be the heart.

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    Administrator dfwcre8tive's Avatar
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    It's only a portion of the site, too. There will be space left behind the building for additional residences and space along Flora for more retail/mixed use/boutique hotel.

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    Super Moderator lakewoodhobo's Avatar
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    Does anyone know if the print version of the story contains a rendering? This one should absolutely move forward, but I'm concerned about its chances for the $1.1M grant. Surely a few wealthy arts enthusiasts can get behind this project and help fund it.

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    Skyscraper Member maconahey's Avatar
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    The six-story structure at 2121 Flora Street will feature upper stories that are stepped back from Flora Street, with landscaped terraces on those floors. The artist housing on the upper floors will be blended with street-level retail filled with uses like a cafť, gastropub, floral shop, technology gallery and other creative neighborhood benefits.
    http://www.florastreetlofts.com/wp/

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    High-Rise Member eburress's Avatar
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    Huh. I didn't expect affordable artist housing, but what an interesting development. I like the idea!

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    The project has to have a time limit on the stay. NY Times had a story about a similar building in NYC. Now it is filled with the up and coming artists of 1965 when the building opened and they never left. Who would? Rent controlled with all your neighbors fellow artists. What a deal. If one wave moves in and stays, the people subsidizing it lose the benefit of giving beginning people with talent a leg up. It is tough to make people move, but turnover is necessary.

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    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    ^Since La Reunion is part of the deal, some of these apartments might be for an expanded artist residency exchange. I'm more excited that La Reunion might become a really big deal in the art world than I'm excited about affordable apartments for artists in the Arts District.
    The mediator between the head and the hands must be the heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjblazin View Post
    The project has to have a time limit on the stay. NY Times had a story about a similar building in NYC. Now it is filled with the up and coming artists of 1965 when the building opened and they never left. Who would? Rent controlled with all your neighbors fellow artists. What a deal. If one wave moves in and stays, the people subsidizing it lose the benefit of giving beginning people with talent a leg up. It is tough to make people move, but turnover is necessary.
    I don't think you could make people leave under the tax credit rules unless their income grew by a significant amount and made them ineligible, so I don't see how that is possible.

    If you look at the website, this is a really interesting project. There is an unspecified amount of commercial and retail space, 39 affordable units, 8 market rate units on the top floor (at 1,000 sq. ft. average according the DMN article--that gives you a floor plate of only 8,000 sq. ft.), and 290 parking spots. The whole project is really a parking play financially--assuming, I imagine, that with the Arts District, the Klyde Warren, and downtown commercial uses that the structured parking will be the economic generator.

    The housing is really just thrown in as an amenity for the Arts District. It seems very clever, and although it could be a pain to finance, it just might work and allow some moderately priced housing in an area where it wouldn't exist otherwise.

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    Skyscraper Member sterling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjblazin View Post
    The project has to have a time limit on the stay. NY Times had a story about a similar building in NYC. Now it is filled with the up and coming artists of 1965 when the building opened and they never left. Who would? Rent controlled with all your neighbors fellow artists. What a deal. If one wave moves in and stays, the people subsidizing it lose the benefit of giving beginning people with talent a leg up. It is tough to make people move, but turnover is necessary.
    I know well the NY buildings you speak of. Believe it or not it takes a great deal of money to have even the most perfunctory career in NYC. These buildings also house rehearsal studios. They also shelter low income families. One can get on a waiting list and wait for the new faces of 1965 to die, which happens frequently. Rent Control is dying in New York, and with it, artists are moving further and further from their places of employment. It seems absurd to try and imagine who the lucky artists will be for these token 50 spaces in Dallas. There should be more buildings surrounding the cultural area which house artists and families affordably of course.

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    Super Moderator lakewoodhobo's Avatar
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    While artists await affordable housing in Arts District, TIF boards to add a little extra green to the canvas

    http://share.d-news.co/c0dmkwl

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    Skyscraper Member Double Wide's Avatar
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    I like the design, wish they had had this when i was a starving artist back in 2006-2008
    Cider is an amazing addition to the bars of America but it gives me the worst hangovers......

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    Skyscraper Member ChampionDallas's Avatar
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    Booo.

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChampionDallas View Post
    Booo.
    Why so sad? Batman

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    Uptown Member DallasMan's Avatar
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    Cool idea, but wow, these renderings are ugly. Are we seriously going to be build this across from the Winspear and Cathedral, and behind the Belo Mansion? Maybe it'll look better in person? Right now it looks like those cheap 1960s dorms that most universities built that everyone on campus now curses...

    http://www.florastreetlofts.com/wp/qa/

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    I'm amazed they're even able to develop just the front half of that lot. When I read about it I assumed it was the whole parking lot, but that sure is one narrow development!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DallasMan View Post
    Cool idea, but wow, these renderings are ugly. Are we seriously going to be build this across from the Winspear and Cathedral, and behind the Belo Mansion? Maybe it'll look better in person? Right now it looks like those cheap 1960s dorms that most universities built that everyone on campus now curses...

    http://www.florastreetlofts.com/wp/qa/
    I can't say I like the renderings, but Graham Greene usually does good work, so, given how much the functional aspects of the project will benefit the art district, I'm going to assume that the real building will outshine the renderings.

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    High-Rise Member eburress's Avatar
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    I think those look great and would be a wonderful addition to the area!

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    No completely opposed to the design but wish they would ditch the lot and fill the entire space.

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    High-Rise Member homeworld1031tx's Avatar
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    If they're going to build artist space I really think the design district would be the place to do it. Not valuable downtown space in a eerily clean, non-urban park of spaceship-like performance buildings. It's not like there are any art galleries or music studios in the arts district anyways.

    Although I am looking forward to the lulz from placing museum tower's demographics next to reduced priced artists' housing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by homeworld1031tx View Post
    If they're going to build artist space I really think the design district would be the place to do it. Not valuable downtown space in a eerily clean, non-urban park of spaceship-like performance buildings. It's not like there are any art galleries or music studios in the arts district anyways.

    Although I am looking forward to the lulz from placing museum tower's demographics next to reduced priced artists' housing.
    Both seems like a good idea to me. There may be some room for galleries at 2121 Flora, or Hall Arts, or maybe in the unoccupied Belo storefront on Flora. There's lots of empty space downtown that could be used for a music studio, and there are some live music sites, and we could use more.

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    Oh Good. Now we can whine about this one for the next two years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eburress View Post
    I think those look great and would be a wonderful addition to the area!
    I agree, I like these. Reminds me of something from Seattle or Portland.

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    Just kidding (80%) art_suckz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metrosteve View Post
    Oh Good. Now we can whine about this one for the next two years.
    It's ok... if any one complains we can tell them to "build it themselves".
    "I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction."

  43. #43
    Just kidding (80%) art_suckz's Avatar
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    And on that note: My god that is ugly.
    "I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction."

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    High-Rise Member CDallas's Avatar
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    Drawings really don't show enough detail to make any determination and I would argue that this is prettier than an asphalt parking lot which we could stand to eliminate a lot of downtown!

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    Quote Originally Posted by art_suckz View Post
    And on that note: My god that is ugly.
    Build it yourself!

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    Mid-Rise Member mdg109's Avatar
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    It's such a flat rendering, it's too hard to tell what it will really look like. It's a simple structure, but with the right textures it might look great.

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    Super Moderator lakewoodhobo's Avatar
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    Last Sunday the DMN updated the story from July 25th to mention that groundbreaking is expected in March and a few other details:

    Flora Lofts will offer four levels of underground parking... At street level on Flora, there will be a 9,000 square foot retail space that the development team hopes will become a downtown Apple Store.
    http://www.florastreetlofts.com/wp/w...ora-080413.pdf
    Last edited by lakewoodhobo; 11 August 2013 at 03:47 PM.

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    Uptown Member DallasMan's Avatar
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    ^I think the key word to highlight in that quote is actually "hopes"

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DallasMan View Post
    ^I think the key word to highlight in that quote is actually "hopes"
    I second that "hopes" is a big word here. I also hope that I don't have a crash on the way to work in the morning but we will have to wait and see won't we.

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